Welcome to the Investing for Beginners podcast. In today’s show, we discuss:
- Talk about the difficulties in timing the market and the strengths of time in the market.
- How to set up your portfolio to handle inflation and the ups and downs of investing in gold as an inflation hedge
- Talk about using charts to invest and how to find the best companies to invest in for long-term gains.
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Dave: [00:00:00] Welcome to Investing for Beginners podcast. Tonight, we have episode 204. Tonight, we are going to answer one listener question. We got this great three-part question from Haiden from New Zealand.
And we’re going to take a little bit of time and answer his three questions. So without any further ado, I’m going to go ahead and start reading the first question. So bear with me. It’s a bit wordy. So just bear with me, all right. So I have, hi, Andrew and Dave. I’d been contemplating investing for some time, and listening to your podcast has really opened the door and solidified me getting some quote-unquote skin in the game, so thank you both. I’m 28 years old, and he lives in New Zealand. As I mentioned earlier, and enter the market, slap bang in the middle of the COVID-19 lockdown at peak market crash. I once read that when there’s blood in the streets purge, I just wish I had bought more.
We talk a lot about capital allocation, when to buy and when to sell, and how much to sell. I’m raising this because I’m trying to keep my overall returns high year over year.
Andrew: [00:00:59] Yeah, me too, buddy.
Dave: [00:01:01] Amen. Recently I’ve been holding out and buying bigger positions when a stock falls, then selling around half of that position.
When a stock hits highs, then I reinvest the original sum plus the capital back in when the stock falls again, taking a larger price. I’ve been using the three to six-month charts as my basis to buy and sell. And so far have been making around 10 to 15% gains on each trade. My thought process was I grow my returns.
I’m still dollar-cost averaging. I’m not trading because these are companies I’d hold forever. And I never fully sell out. I speed up the compounding effect because my dividends increased because my number of shares increase, all the while I have more cash to invest in other securities. Let me know your thoughts.
Are Andrew. All right, Andrew. Let’s take a pass at the first one. So what are your thoughts on the first one?
Andrew: [00:01:47] It sounds great, and I think that’s something when you’re first getting into the stock market, you’re always looking for that idea that sounds great where there’s no downside, but there’s always going to be a downside to any sort of trading strategy.
That goes in the stock market, and that’s what makes the stock market, whether it is. So if I can just try to summarize what the strategy is here, basically waiting until a stock dips, buying the stock when it dips and then waiting for it to hit some highs selling out and then waiting for the stock to dip again and then getting back in.
So I totally get the logic of, like, all right, these are companies I want to own for the long term. And playing that game off, being long-term, the stock, but picking and choosing when you’re going out when you’re coming back in. So I could see something like that working when there’s a lot of volatility, particularly with COVID. For a lot of that time, when the market was going down 7% up 5%, you could literally just buy on the day when there was red cell on a day when there was green, and you could have just made big gains every single day.
And so that would have worked until it. And then, after the kind of panic of COVID passed, you had a lot less volatility, and instead of stocks dipping a lot and coming back up, you just had stocks just go straight up. So if you had, it becomes really tough because it’s like what, which high do you sell that?
And that’s the biggest question, I think. Break it down a lot of the complex or trying to beat the normal way of investing where, you’re just, you’re gonna, you’re gonna figure out a better way to do it rather than just buy and hold. The question always becomes, like, when do you sell?
And it’s the same question when you play the great greater fool game where it’s I’m going to buy a meme stock, or I’m going to buy a stock just because everybody’s buying it. But the question is, when do you sell it? Like how many conversations I’ve had about people talking about, granted, this is speculative kind of just fun money and crypto and stuff, but the common theme, almost every time you have that conversation, is I should have gone out sooner.
And then that’s what makes it so difficult is you never know when to sell. And I think that’s where a strategy like this can break down because either. You basically sold at the top of that. It wasn’t really the top. And that keeps the stock keeps rising. You could potentially shoot yourself in the foot with the best business you’ve ever found because of you.
Sold when they were at a high, and it never dipped again. And you weren’t able to get back in until almost all the gains were there. And that’s probably the biggest problem I see with this. And so it’s almost like picking pennies up in front of a steam roller, but the steam roller is the fact that you picked a fantastic business that continues to grow, but you were so insistent on picking pennies that.
You sold out, and you missed all the big growth. That’s the biggest potential problem I see with it. And I guess those would be my
Dave: [00:04:43] thoughts. I would echo a lot of those thoughts too. And I think thinking about the idea, in theory, sounds pretty good, but there are some, I guess there are some flaws to the idea that I can see.
So the first flaw that I could see is the idea of. Buying at a low and selling at a high, you don’t know when those are going to happen. And let’s say that I’ll just use a company. For example, let’s say Facebook, let’s say Facebook is the company you think is going to be the greatest company ever, and you buy it at a low, and then it goes up to six, 10, 15%, whatever it may be.
And you sell out because you think it’s at a high, and your plan is to buy at a dip. What does that do? Do you want to wait till it goes down 1%, 2%. Are you going to wait for it to drop 10%? How long is that going to be and all that time that you’re not in Facebook, that is the time that you don’t have the company compounding for you, because let’s say that it does go down 5%, but it takes seven months for it to do that.
Now you’ve lost seven months of potential compounding that you could have added to that position because if you are adding additional money into the market, you’re just adding to that compounding and adding to the. And going to gain from reinvesting that are going to continue to grow. The other flip side of that, too, is that he made a comment about the dividends.
So the dividends, if you’re drilling those dividends, every time you sell them, you have to sell that part of the position too. And that compounding aspect of it. Dividends now go away. And then you also have the flip side of that is if you’re out of the company for the period of time before they declare another dividend and you don’t get back in now, you’ve lost the opportunity to be part of the dividend of that company.
So every time you buy and sell out of a company, if you don’t get back in when the company declares a dividend, and you get that dividend issued to you, you’ve lost that opportunity to compound from the dividend as well. So there, there are. I guess intrinsic flaws to the idea. The basic idea is probably not a horrible idea, but the actual execution of it, you’d have to time it.
And there is not a single person on earth that can time the stock market. We just don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. And we don’t know what’s going to happen in the next day or the next day or the next day. On earth could have predicted that COVID would happen. That everything that happened with COVID would happen, and it’s still going on.
And we just don’t know. And so then I mentioned the emotional and mental toll. Trying to manage this for the next 50 or 60 years would take on you because this would require constant attention to continue to go at the pace that you’re talking about doing. And if you’ve got the energy and the mental stamina to do it, and by all means, go for it.
But I don’t. And that’s. I don’t. I want to spend my time doing other things, and this would require a lot of attention and a lot of attention to detail. And if you have a big, if you have a big portfolio, you got five stocks. Sure. You may be able to do this, but if you got 25 or 30 companies you’re trying to manage all of this activity on, that would be a full-time job.
And if you’ve got millions in the stock market. Sure. But if you don’t, if you’re like the rest of us, then this may be a hard idea to execute
Andrew: [00:08:20] I wonder if time is better spent looking for better companies rather than trying to figure out a timing strategy. I like all the ideas you presented, the loss and compounding, and some of the side effects of how all of that can go. And yeah, a lot of the things that sound good in theory don’t work out great in practice.
And so hopefully, it’s a lesson that a lot of people can learn from my experience, other people’s experiences versus having to learn out there.
Dave: [00:08:52] Yeah. And I agree with that. And another thing I think I want to throw out there is this idea that Andrew was talking about at the beginning of his answer was the idea that it’s a great idea in work until it doesn’t.
And right now, the stock market is all going up to the right for the most part, and it’s easy or easier. And. It’s easy to get fooled, to think that this is always going to be the case. And history has proven over the last couple of hundred years echoed since mankind came on earth, that his history is not always kind to us.
And that I’m not saying that, there’s going to be a market correction tomorrow or in five years or ten years. I don’t know. But history tells us that at some point, it will turn. And when it does—doing some of these ideas that sound great. Now, when everything is always going up. They won’t be so easy to do when things are going sideways or down; it’s a lot harder to do.
And it’s a lot harder to manage the emotional part of it, too, because it’s really hard to look at the stock market when everything is going down, and all your positions are going down and to not do anything. Or to add to those positions. That’s a really hard thing to do. And we’re Andrew, and I was just on a clubhouse recording a couple of weeks ago.
And the host was talking about the fact that in March of 2020, she sold out of all of her positions because she saw the market going down, and she panicked, and she sold out of our positions. She realized in hindsight that was a mistake, but that’s a very common, emotional reaction to seeing the stock market go down.
And I’m not saying I’m not—a victim of that. I have certainly thought that I just didn’t pull the trigger, but I certainly struggled with it. Absolutely. It was a struggle to look at my stock portfolio and see it’s down 27% for the year or for the last two months. You’re like, what did I do?
I had faith, and that’s really the biggest issue. And so I guess the idea that some of these things that we talk about on the show, some of the great ideas that people throw at us, some of them are great, and some will work until they don’t. And you just have to remember that. And so I just caution people to think about it.
That the stock market is not always easy, and just because you pick a company and it goes up to the right for six months, a year, two years doesn’t mean that it will work for the next 10 or 20. And so you just have to remember that. And not every company you’re going to pick is always going to go up to the right; there are going to be losers, and there’s lots and lots and lots of market research.
And by very smart people that have shown historically how. These returns all return to the mean, which means they all return to their averages. At some point life cycles of most of the companies in the stock market are 10 to 15 years at best. And if you look over the last, we’ve talked about this before; if you look over the last 20 years, the companies that were in the top 10 in the P are not there anymore.
And that’s only 20 years ago. If you look back at 10, I think only half of those are still in the—10 of the S and P 500. So things change very quickly in the stock market, and in today’s world of technology, they change even faster. And it just cautions people to think about how they behave when everything’s going up into the right. Cause it’s not always going to be like that.
Andrew: [00:12:13] The last thing too is like taxes. If you’re not in a retirement account and you’re just changing this with your brokerage, short-term taxes are generally a lot more expensive than long-term taxes. So if you’re going in and out within a couple of months, that’s going to be really expensive.
Dave: [00:12:30] Amen. So I just want to throw one other thing out there for Haiden. We’re not trying to bash you, and we’re not trying to be super negative about your idea. I love the outside-of-the-box thinking and the creativity. Those are all great traits to have and continue to think that way because those kinds of thinking we do to lots of great discoveries, not only in investing but are other aspects of your life.
So I encourage you to continue that, but we just wanted to; we just need to try to illustrate that sometimes ideas on paper aren’t always going to maybe work the best in real life. And, you could come back in five years and tell us we were completely wrong and not, that would be fine. All right, let’s move on to the next question.
So we have question number two, inflation and market crash. It’s a hot topic and has got me thinking; I know the rule is to not panic and never weave the market. That being said, are there ways to prepare for inflation as well as diversifying your portfolio? For example, if inflation happens, your cash is worth it.
So debt is worthless in that sense. I see rates being a strong buy for both inflation and portfolio diversification. Historically gold has also increased in value during inflation, but I wouldn’t want to buy into commodities in that case. Would GoldMining be a valuable buy for both diversification and inflation, in particular, Newport corporation, ticker, NEM?
Andrew, what are your thoughts on his part to his question?
Andrew: [00:13:57] Yeah, I’m curious what you think about the whole idea that the cash is worthless because it’s been the play that way. And so, the debt is not worth as much. Do you square away with that? Or is there something there that’s?
Dave: [00:14:13] Well, as you and I were talking off-air before we came on, I think that I think there’s a couple of ways to think about it.
So the way that I, the way that I initially thought about it, and you pointed out another idea too. My idea is that, yes, the cash is worthless. And so, theoretically, the debt is worthless, but the flip side of that is. If you owe $10, for example, and you’re normally paying a dollar towards your payment to pay down your debt or the interest that you owe on that $10.
Then if your dollar now is only worth 50 cents because of inflation, that means that the interest that you have to pay on the. $10 has, is still the same. It’s not changed because it’s a fixed amount, but your ability to pay more towards it is less because your dollar, the value of your money is reduced.
And so you’re going to actually have to pay more value-wise to reduce the debt. So the debt is not really cheaper for you. So because you’re buying power, you don’t have as much money to pay for that. So that was my thought on that. What is your thought on that?
Andrew: [00:15:27] And so yeah, that’s the thing, right? Yeah. If yesterday’s dollars aren’t as valuable.
The question is, are today’s, are you able to raise today’s dollars? And so, if you look at companies in the stock market, as an example, some of them, just because there’s inflation, isn’t a guarantee that your business can all of a sudden make more dollars. And so that really becomes the question for inflation is if inflation has caused your prices to go up.
Then you’re fine. And that whole debt kind of thing can work out for that business. But just because there’s inflation throughout the economy is not a guarantee that your company will have higher revenues or be able to raise its prices. And that can happen for a variety of reasons. Just because you’re a business and you have, if you have a restaurant and you decided, ah, you know what, I’m going to just start charging 20 bucks for a burger.
Suppose there’s a restaurant street next to you who are not doing that same thing. And they’re still charging ten bucks a burger. You’re probably not going to get as great of revenues as if people are willing to switch. If you’re the best burger in town and you switched to $20, a burger, and people are still happy to pay it because of inflation and because they have more money because of inflation, then yeah.
Then that. That kind of all works in your favor, but it comes down to that question of, is your business able to increase its revenues or not? And because that’s not a guarantee just because there’s inflation, that doesn’t make the whole debt thing. It doesn’t make the whole debt thing squared away because the debt is still the debt.
So you still have to pay the debt like Dave was saying whether you have more dollars to pay that debt or not. It is a variable it’s not guaranteed. So you can’t just say I’m gonna have more dollars. And so that’s actually less it’s not a guarantee. You could have the same dollars in the same debt, and you’d be in the same situation, arguably a worse situation because now your expenses have probably increased, but the debt payment is still dragging you down, and you don’t have increased revenues because the business isn’t good enough to adjust for inflation.
Dave: [00:17:32] So here’s a question, though. This is thinking about kind of structuring your portfolio and how you go about picking better companies to withstand this. How is the fed going to react to inflation going up?
Andrew: [00:17:47] Generally, the way I don’t want to go super deep into a macro. No, but we’ve done that in the past.
Dave: [00:17:53] Let’s talk a little bit like
Andrew: [00:17:55] generally, they would raise rates. They would let interest rates rise so that the economy can cool.
Dave: [00:18:01] Great. And what does that, so when they raise their rates, what’s going to happen to the prices and the stock market. How’s that going to be affected?
Andrew: [00:18:07] They’re going to go down generally.
Dave: [00:18:09] Yes. Yeah. So inflation that’s why that’s, that is the crux of why having strong companies. In your investment portfolio is the easiest and best way to hedge against inflation. You can go down the route of that that Haiden’s talking about by trying to have things like gold and others. I guess non-inflation or inflation-resistant type assets.
And you can certainly do that. And there are lots of great investors who have advocated for that. Ray Dalio is probably one that comes to mind first and foremost. He has what he calls an all-weather portfolio, which is a construction of different assets and different allocations of assets.
And primarily, his portfolio is made up of roughly 40 to 50% gold, and everything else flows from that. And it, he does that for basically an inflation hedge and. You can argue now until six days in Sunday about the performance and what kind of construction you want to have on a portfolio. But the basic idea is as inflation rises, the fed is going to have to raise rates to try to tamp that down, to try to cool off the economy.
Which causes them to spend less. And that means that the prices of everything are going to go down. And if people are spending less, then a lot of these companies that you see these huge revenue booms are going to start to cool off. And it means that a lot of those companies don’t have strong fundamentals or that are just in the early stages of their life cycle.
Are growing tremendous rates and maybe taking on debt at tremendous rates, then they’re going to, they’re going to start to run into a big problem because once the revenues go away, the operating margins are not sufficient to allow the company to continue to function without taking on more debt.
And if it can’t take on more debt because it has a whore credit rating, or it doesn’t have the wearable. Pay the interest payments that they already have, and that is going to be in a big world of hurt. So when you go through a situation like high inflation and a great example of this is looking at the portfolio that Warren Buffett had during the eighties, right before president Ronald Reagan became the president in 19 86, 84 or something like that.
Inflation. Sky-high. I think interest rates were 10, 12, 15%, just ridiculously high. And they were doing all that to try to tamp down inflation. And because of that, the stock market was just an absolute wreck. But because Buffett had all these strong companies that had great financials, great balance sheets, he was able to weather that storm and come out of it on the other end.
He was doing great. He had companies like Coca-Cola, he had Wells Fargo, he had American express, he had Moody’s, he had all these great strong companies, Berkshire, Hathaway. He had great companies that he invested in Geico. Just on and on. Anyway, my point with all that is is that. When you diversify, and when you buy the best companies that you can buy, that’s probably the best way to try to hedge against inflation.
And we can argue all day about who the best companies are, but if you buy buying companies that have strong balance sheets, strong fundamentals are great businesses with great moats. Those companies are going to be able to sustain inflation or EO increasing inflation much better than companies that are more on the fringe of those kinds of ideas.
Andrew: [00:21:49] And, in this particular case with a gold miner, as an example, gold has historically been a great hedge against inflation. I’m talking about a piece of gold like a gold bar has historically been. But just because it has in the past doesn’t mean it necessarily will be in the future.
And I think something to keep in mind when you talk about. Something like a mining company is a lot of them are generally very capital intensive. So that means they have to be, they have to buy really heavy machinery. They have to pay a lot of the workers to operate that machinery. They have to. Do all of that’s associated with running that business.
And so, when inflation is running hot, they’re going to have to pay workers higher wages. They’re going to have to buy this machinery. If you look at the miner, sometimes Close to half of their cash could be needy needed to get put back in the business as a capital expenditure. And in that case, in a business-like that, it takes money to make money.
And so if you’re trying to buy this machinery, the mined gold and everybody around you and their brother is trying to mind gold too, because they’re all scared of inflation. What do you think is going to happen to the price of that machinery that you need? It’s going to go up too. So yeah, revenues could go up for a minor, but so could the costs in an equal or greater fashion.
And so where it comes down, there is, again that, that idea of having a strong company and having a company that has an advantage over its competitors because those are the most likely to be able to weather any storm. And that includes them.
Dave: [00:23:20] Yes, I would agree with that. And I think a great, I agree, a great study.
If somebody is really interested in learning more about this kind of idea of finding great companies that can withstand those kinds of periods is to look back at history, to look at some of the great investments of some of the big-time investors from—the period in the seventies and eighties, when there was much higher inflation than there is now.
And you can see the types of companies that they were buying. Now, granted, the stock market now is a completely different beast than it was during that time period. But you can get an overall idea of companies that have. All the strong characteristics that we’re talking about have the ability to withstand market upturns as well as downturns and stay the course and continue on.
And the last thing I want to mention about this is that when. Inflation goes up, and the fed is starting to fight that; one of the ways that they’re going to fight that is by raising interest rates. And one of the biggest impacts that are going to have is on credit and where that’s really going to come into play is when companies go to try to borrow money to either continue to operate or to try to grow in that case, that now becomes way more expensive because the interest rates that they’re going to pay on those rates for those bonds are going to be.
Sometimes, triple what they’re paying. Now, I was looking at a company there a day that was offering 10. They were offering a ten-year bond for an interest rate of 1.15, which is just stupid cheap. And so that’s why companies are offering so much debt right now is because it’s so cheap for them to offer.
But the other flip side of that is if interest rates start to go up, then the debt not only becomes way more expensive for the company to use as a way to grow. It also becomes, it also could become more expensive for them to pay because of the interest rates. That they have to pay on that debt could rise as well, if it’s a variable interest rate on the debt.
Those are things that to keep in mind when you’re thinking about those things, but that’s my 2 cents worth.
Andrew: [00:25:28] The last thing I’ll add is a little sneaky, like sales pitch self-promotion. So I have a REIT in my portfolio in the Eli there that I recommended, and they actually have their rents, a lot of most of their rent.
To their tenants are tied to CPI. So they have pretty good inflation has just built into the business. But just because you’re a REIT doesn’t mean REIT stands for real estate investment trust; just because they’re a REIT itself doesn’t mean you have a good hedge against inflation. Again, that goes down to the business and like how they’ve written out those rent contracts.
And, I wouldn’t really want to be in, in certain parts of the real estate market just in general, but there are other good REITs out there that could be. Beneficial to you, but echoing what they’ve said, make sure you’re doing your research and. Understanding that there’s not an easy answer to it, but something we can all figure out.
So this last question he said, he calls it a bonus stock performance. When I’m researching, I look at the long-term performance of the stock. For example, security might have a one-year return of 16% three-year return of 35%, and a ten-year return of 12%. How should these metrics influence my position?
When you look at the charts during these times, Frames there are dips. So should I sell my capital near three, buy the dip and keep my base investment for the ten-year return? Or is this just me expecting a history of the repeat itself? Appreciate your time. And any insight you can offer.
Dave: [00:26:54] Yeah, history does not always repeat. It does rhyme sometimes, but it doesn’t repeat, and trying to use the chart to timeout when you’re going to buy I, I would. I’ve never done it, and I’ve never heard anybody do that, but I got to imagine that’s just not going to happen. I, I can’t imagine that Facebook in year three is going to drop automatically just because it did in year three, three years ago.
When you’re looking at charts like that, I just use them, frankly. It’s just a reference to go, okay. This company has done well in the past. Okay, great. It’s not history is never a prediction of future returns. Future returns are really come down to how the company operates and how it operates versus the cost of running the business.
And that’s really the fundamental of whether the company is going to continue to do well in the market or not. And a lot of it has to do with whether other people think the company is a good company. I want to pay up for it or not. Sometimes you do all the research in a world. You find the greatest company ever, and you think you’ve found the diamond in the rough, so to speak, but just because you think it’s a great company, you’ve done all the research.
It doesn’t mean that the market’s going to agree with you. And I generally don’t pay much attention to charts personally. I just, it’s nice to look at, but I never ever buy anything based on how a company has done over the last six months or the last 12 months. It’s nice to reference it, to give you an idea of that.
The potential and where it could be going, but it really comes down to the fundamentals of how the company operates, what it does well and how the other competitors are in the market lining up against it. And really, that’s the basis of it. I could go a lot deeper than that, but that’s really the framework of what I look at when I look at a company.
So what are your thoughts, Andrew?
Andrew: [00:28:49] I just want to give some encouragement, like you were talking about earlier. I think it’s great that Haiden is asking these questions and has that kind of curious and open mind cause that’s where you are when you first started out in the market. And I think it’s just natural to look for these kinds of patterns and like signals and indications because I think we do that in a lot of different things.
I don’t want the podcast to start turning into my therapy session about my golf swing, but because I tried learning how to swing a golf club late in life. It’s very fresh in my memory, and I’m still not good at all; you have these certain things that you’re trying to accomplish with the golf swing, and it’s if I could just keep my arms straight, that should fix the whole swing or if I could just.
Get the rotation right. Or get my backswing. That should just fix the swing. But the reality is that there are a million different moving pieces, particularly to the golf swing itself. If you don’t play the sport, it’s like a crazy intricate symphony of like coordination that goes into this beautiful swing, and just watch Dave do it.
And I hear about his scores. I’m sure his looks brilliant, but it’s helpful when you’re starting to be like, okay, let me think about how it keeps me in the arm straight and going to fix that. And then, you work onto something else that’s a deficiency.
So you look for these patterns, you look for signals that you can use to improve yourself. But when it comes to the stock market, what we have to remember is like what Dave said before. That there are businesses underneath the stock market. And so though the market may appear like it has patterns and, people like to classify them as head and shoulders or, they have all these fancy names tea, cup, and kettle, and all these different ways to describe these ways that the charts move, which sometimes can be logical, but a lot of times isn’t, and the only constant between all of that is that there’s a business that’s underneath.
And so, if we can remember that when businesses do well, the stock market does well. And we focus our attention on that. Then we don’t have to worry about all the other conflicting signals and noise between, whether it’s the fed or the economy, or new industry IPOs coming in and disrupting the market million different things that can move the stock market itself.
But at the end of the day, you still have a business, and you still have. It’s performance. And the question is it serving its customers, right? Is it providing a valuable product or service that people are willing and happy to pay for? And are they able to continue that over time? And that’s the crux of it at the end of the day.
And so the market will do what the market’s going to do. It’s going to be emotional. Like we talk about like Benjamin Graham called it, Mr. Market. And it’s just; we have to focus on the things we can control and not the crazy signals and patterns that the market gives to us.
Dave: [00:31:32] Yeah, I agree. And I really, again, want to emphasize what that kind of tagging on what Andrew was saying.
With Haiden. I don’t want you to feel like we’re attacking you because some of our responses have been maybe a little more negative. We’re really what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to talk through the ideas that you’re presenting and maybe show some of the possible downsides to the ideas that you’re presenting to us because Andrew and I, by no means, know everything there is to know about the stock market, but we do have experience, and we have read a lot, and we’ve learned a lot and yeah.
This is what we do. And I think we want to encourage you to continue to ask these great questions and think again, outside the box and think through these ideas because you’re obviously giving these ideas lots of thought, and these are great ideas to think through. And just because you come up with an idea and maybe it doesn’t work, or maybe it’s maybe not the right idea, it doesn’t mean that you can’t take bits or pieces of things that you’re working on or.
And continue to add them to your toolbox of things that do work for you. And I give you kudos for writing this great question. We spent, I don’t know, almost 40 minutes talking about your questions tonight, so that’s, that’s pretty awesome, and there’s some great stuff in there, and you’re obviously doing a lot of thinking, a lot of great things.
So I want to encourage you to keep doing those great thinking because you’re on the right path. Absolutely. You’re on the right path.
And with that, we are going to wrap up our conversation for this evening. I wanted again, thank Haiden for taking the time to write a fantastic question and giving us lots of great ideas to talk about tonight.
So if you guys have any other questions or any other thoughts, please do not hesitate to send them to us. We’re here for you. We’re here to help. We want you guys to learn. Did you again, this along the way as well. So without any further ado, I’m going to go and sign us off. You guys go out there and invest with a margin of safety emphasis on the safety. Have a great week. We’ll talk to you all next week.