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Dave: 00:39 All right folks, we’re welcome to Investing for Beginners podcast, this is episode 103 tonight. Andrew and I are going to talk about IPOs, uh, with the upcoming Uber IPO on the horizon. It’s going to begin here very shortly. Uh, Andrew and I thought it would be apropos for us to talk a little bit about IPOs and a little bit about Uber and just kind of our general thoughts about how this will work, what we think is a good investment and so on. So Andrew wants to go ahead and take your first stab at this, and then we’ll have a little conversation about it.
Andrew: 01:12 Okay. I want to, so I guess to overview on the Uber IPO and then maybe we can talk about IPO is in general. So based on or recording this the day of their IPO. So it’s happening kind of in real time as we’re talking. They, some people, there are huge expectations for this. Lyft had an IPO very recently. Some people, I don’t know where they got this idea, but some people were thinking the Uber with IPO at like a hundred billion market cap. Um, I read, I read 120 billion. Like where, where do they, they just like put a bunch of numbers in a hat and Oh, 120 sounds nice. And that’s what they decide. I don’t; I don’t get it at all.
Andrew: 02:01 The what ended up happening was 8.1 billion as of today as well. I’m seeing, uh, they’re saying Facebook raise like 16 visas raised 18 and 2008 and Ali Baba raised 25 billion to 2014. So to put that in perspective, I mean eight still pretty big. Um, but you know, obviously not like a record-breaking number. I don’t know. Like I guess we could comment on like where we think it’s going to go. I don’t know how useful that that would be. I hate their business model just, just as a, as a side I guess, uh, reminds me of Amazon, right. Lyft as the same business model. It’s just like this, this race to the bottom. How can that ever be profitable?
Dave: 02:59 Oh, very true. And I think some things that people have to keep in mind with the typical hysteria of IPOs. I mean Uber has been around for ten years now. It’s been around for a little bit and lift has been around for a little bit as well. And Lyfts IPO was not quite as I guess glamorous as Uber is going to be. And you know, Lyft is already the stock prices already down 30% since its IPO, which was a couple of weeks ago. And to bring up Andrew Nice, one of our favorite whipping boys, a snapchat. I was just looking at the numbers on snapchat. Uh, what Andrew was, was chatting and it initially IPO to $27. It’s now down to 10 44 a share and it got as low as four 99 a share at one point not too long ago. So IPOs can be very dangerous to get involved in because you get super excited about all the hype and everything.
Dave: 03:58 And uh, I think I read yesterday that Uber prior to going public lost $800 million last year, I believe it was. So they’re obviously bleeding cash. Huge. And Andrew mentioned their business model and their business model is based on people other, you know, other employees driving for them. And there’s a lot of unrest among the people that work for Uber, I. E. The drivers because of how the payments work at Uber takes a fair, fair amount of the money that an Uber driver gets. And I think they’re getting frustrated with that. And then of course, there’s also the whole technological aspect of how this is going to work because there’s a race to see who can be come the first people with a driverless car. And of course these, uh, Uber and Lyft are going to be very, very much in the forefront of that because if they can develop that or with the help of, of Google and some of the other companies out there that are working on this, the first person that develops that people that drive for these companies are done and knows those people will be out of jobs.
Dave: 05:10 If that’s their main source of income, they’ll have to find something else. And if it’s a side Gig, then I’ve yelled, they’ll have to find something else. Because once that happens, then those cars will go out in, they will take the place of the drivers. And that’ll be, that’ll be unfortunate because that’s a huge source of income for a lot of these people. So that to me is something that’s a little bit of a negative about what’s, what’s on the horizon is, it may not happen tomorrow, but it’s coming and something that’s happening already. Yeah. They know they’re testing it. They’re testing it. Actually in Phoenix, Arizona. I read recently that the, that Google has partnered with Lyft and they are working on, uh, you know, Beta testing driverless cars in Phoenix, Arizona. So Phoenix is a fairly big place. It’s not a bad place to start it because, uh, I lived there for awhile and the grid is very easy to get around.
Dave: 06:06 It’s everything is because it’s so flat. There’s a few mountains here or there, but for the most part it’s very flat and it’s really easy to, uh, to get around. And I think that would be a great place for them to start because there’s not a lot of weather to deal with because it’s just pot all the time. So you don’t have to deal with deal with the snow thing like where I am in Wisconsin. So, uh, you know, it’s a great place to, to do this, but it’s coming. And I think that’s one of the things that concerns me a little bit about, you know, how this company is going to work and how it’s going to treat the people that work for them and have made it where it is. And got it, brought it to the name that it is because eventually I think they’re excited about it because I think that’s one of things that they see as a way to profitability is, you know, instead of having to pay other people for, you know, their service, then they can just buy the cars and not have to worry about the maintenance of the vehicles and the upkeep and the technology part of it and not have to pay us, you know, human peasants to drive everybody.
Andrew: 07:08 That’s a good point. I mean, that is a potential driver. Catalyst for future profitability. Um, obviously it’s not here yet. I, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve never saw, I visited Phoenix once. Um, it reminded me a lot of California. Uh, I grew up in southern California, so just like the way the roads looked and the way the freeways looked at, it reminded me a lot of, so cow, I was only there for like one night and part of a day. So I don’t remember. But do you remember if there were a lot of head desk, Julian’s around, just like in general, the all, no, no. Driverless, a huge thing with driverless cars is, uh, a human, my look and they might see like a non, you know, like you make a split second decision, am I going to hit this pedestrian next to me or am I going to hit, you know, the car next to me and a robot might not.
Dave: 08:00 Right. You know, they, they can’t process that data that like, oh, you know, maybe they go over and run over the person rather than hit the car because they just see it as a data point. I don’t know. Like, does that make sense? It does. It does. No, there’s not a lot of pedestrians. Uh, I mean there will be in certain areas, you know, if you’re in the market district and in Scottsdale or for your over by, you know, Arizona State, obviously there’s going to be, you know, a more foot traffic there. But by and large, no, there’s not a lot of, there’s not a lot of foot traffic in, in and around the city itself. It’s pretty big city. Uh, I would say is probably eight or 9 million as far as population goes, but it’s pretty spread out amongst all the suburbs and, you know, Mesa, Chandler, Tempe, Arizona, Phoenix and so on.
Dave: 08:49 So it’s, it’s very spread out, but it’s, um, people drive fast. Uh, they’re very aggressive and, but I think it’s, you know, it’s a good place, you know, because of the weather and it’s not as big as some place like Los Angeles obviously with, you know, just massive. So I think it’s, you know, I think it’s a good place to test it because it’s big enough that they can do stuff and they can, you know, really test how it can work in a, in a larger urban market and it’s not a weather related issue, so they don’t have to, you know, as they’re testing it, they don’t need to have to deal with snow and ice and lots and lots of rain and some of those things. So.
Andrew: 09:29 Well, it makes me think too, like, I never really thought of this in depth before, but what, you know, because that’s like one of the most ideal testing spots. And maybe one of the most ideal places to implement it. Does it become something where it’s similar to the way the subways are in New York, right? Where just certain cities have really great public transportation and some like La has done public transportation and so do we see lift in Newburg yet, uh, implemented in certain cities where the conditions are good for it, the weather, the pedestrian, like whatever. All the factors are between the ups, the con, the pros and the cons between driverless and are and real drivers. And does that hurt the future profitability and all the, the optimism because if it’s a yes, it’s in the vein of yes, it’s a technology huge technology boost, but if it only gets implemented in like half the cities while now all of a sudden, does that mean your valuation, your did your evaluation model project that we’re going to roll out across the country and the instead of only went to a couple of ideal cities?
Andrew: 10:37 Uh, that’s, I mean, that’s an interesting take on it.
Dave: 10:40 Know, I would, I would imagine, I mean, I’m going to, I’ve never, I haven’t been in la since Uber has been around. They have Uber’s in Los Angeles. Do they not? Of course. Okay. Um, you know, I would imagine that, you know, I mean, even here in piddly Appleton, Wisconsin, they have it here too. So, uh, I think that it will be, I mean, I predict that it will become in a lot of places de facto public transportation because we w we have buses here, but it’s not a huge, you know, a lot of people don’t use it. Like when I lived in Minneapolis, you know, the public transit system, there was a very good, and a lot of people use that. A lot of my employees when I worked in the restaurant business, a took buses to and from work and saved a lot of money and, you know, saved on car insurance. I mean, there was a lot of advantages to it for sure. And so I think, I mean, I would think that eventually this takes the place, uh, in, you know, like you said in Los Angeles, they don’t really have much in the way of public transport transportation. So this could become, you know, that for a lot of people.
Andrew: 11:53 And when you think about, you know, like let’s compare it to another transportation industry, airlines, um, I think airlines, how do I, how I gotta be careful with what I say here. Um, Warren buffet is bullish on airlines. I think that’s all. Well, again, I have to be careful. So he, he took a rough warmish yeah, he took a 5% position in airlines. Right. And you kind of diversify across a group of three or four stocks. So he’s at least making a play in the airlines. Now obviously, well I can’t say obviously because I wasn’t around back then, but, um, when the airlines first came out, I, I’m assuming the technology is better. Maybe we get to the locations faster. There’s definitely more routes are more flight, more flights, right. Um, in, in just the five years I’ve seen, uh, particularly where I’m at now in Raleigh.
Andrew: 12:51 As not like a consumer good, but as a mode of transportation for people, it’s definitely improved. But if you are to look at the history of the stocks in the airline industry, they’ve historically been terrible, terrible investments and there’s been so much disruption and a lot of financial troubles even with the major airlines. And so, you know, when you think about, yeah, it completely changed the way we travel, but was a great investment and how much of that can run parallel and how much of that kind of plays itself out with Uber and Lyft. I mean, there’s just so much uncertainty. How can you even know?
Dave: 13:37 Very true. You know, that’s, that’s a lot of the part of the, you know, we talked last week about risk. This is a classic case of a company that has been a disruptor for sure and has the potential to be something very, very beneficial to mankind. And we’ll also potentially could be a great investment someday. But I guess it all comes back to what do you believe? What are your principles, you know, how do you feel about investing in a company like this? And you know, for you and I, you know, for me, I can’t, I’m not going to put words in your mouth, but you know, for me, I would not, I would not bite on this because it’s not profitable. I mean, all the things that I stand for as an investor, it doesn’t really mark any of those boxes at this point in time.
Dave: 14:37 And, you know, could I be, like Warren Buffet was saying in the Berkshire meeting last week, you know, he missed on Amazon. You know, could this be the next Amazon? Sure. It could be. But you know, it, to me, it’s, you know, it comes to you, everybody’s risk tolerance. And to me, for this particular circumstance, Uber as too much of a risk. I just think there’s too many variables about what’s going on with the company. Where are they going to go? How are they going to make themselves profitable? Because it goes back to you, when you invest in a company, you’re not just buying the ticker, you’re buying the company and what they’re doing and how they’re making money. And if they’re not making money, then eventually they’re not going to be able to pay you back. So when you invest in a company, you’re giving them your money to use to do whatever they need to do. And if you can’t get your money back, then that’s a bad investment and there’s no guarantee that this company is ever going to be profitable and eventually that will come back to bite them in the butt. And so there’s just a lot of uncertainty with the company. And I guess the other aspect of it too is at this y at this juncture, are they deciding to go public? You know, what’s driving them to go public today? Nice Pie. I guess. I don’t know that answer. What’s that? Yeah, didn’t even think about that.
Andrew: 15:58 Don’t get me started on Amazon. Um, makes me really upset. So I was trying to buy something yesterday on Amazon and I don’t know. How long have you been using Amazon? Prime? I just assume everybody else in the world uses it like I do.
Dave: 16:12 I uh, it’s a brace yourself, but I actually don’t have Amazon prime.
Andrew: 16:16 Oh Man. How, what are the three people in the world who go all right, well, the way it’s worked, you get two day shipping, sometimes you get one day shipping.
Andrew: 16:29 When I was shopping yesterday, instead of having guaranteed delivery, I was getting, I was seeing the blue prime check mark, which means historically for the years I’ve been using Amazon prime, when there’s a blue check mark, you’re getting it in two days guaranteed. Um, sometimes even sooner than that. Now they would come, they would include these items I wanted to purchase, but they would say as soon as, so I was looking out on a Thursday and two day delivery would be on the Saturday and they were saying as soon as Saturday, um, and half the items in my car, even though they had the check mark, we’re actually not coming until Monday or Tuesday. And so it’s like now instead of being a guaranteed delivery for the check mark, it’s a, you can get it as soon as or we’re going to deliver it in a couple of days. And that’s, see that’s a perfect example of the problem when you have a business model, like Amazon’s a perfect example of a business model where we’re just racing to the bottom of where we’re competing on price and that’s how you know we’re going to squeeze all of our competition, we’re going to squeeze out everybody by having such low profit margins that nobody’s going to be able to compete.
Andrew: 17:41 They can’t stay profitable. And because we’re so big and we have more resources, we have more investors. We’re going to be the one who goes up to the top. Now eventually investors are going to want profits as they are now. And so Amazon, how is Amazon going to make profits? They’re going to do stuff like this and all it’s doing is pissing me off and making me realize, well, you know, Walmart I think has two day shipping. There’s other options now and I, I, the more and more I’ve been doing online shopping, the more I’ve seen value in actually going into a store and buying it because for one, you have Bether you’ve a better way of like kind of doing quality control and it’s just, you know, it’s, it’s driving me away from Amazon and I’m somebody who’s been a loyal customer for years.
Andrew: 18:29 Amazon prime customer for years and we’re just talking about one little adjustment to their business model to be more profitable. Imagine what else is going to happen. Uh, I see this happen all the time with a lot of other free type products and it drives me nuts where they’ll get you acclimated and accustomed to features and then they’ll start pulling those back. You know, it’s all it does is it drives, it just drives customers away. And so it’s like, how are you, yeah. You, you, you as an Amazon you became prominent and you’ve got this dominance based on the fact that you’re able to race to the bottom. Now you’re trying to change your business model by taking things away that people got accustomed to. All that’s doing is pissing people off. And if you think that’s going to be a profitable business model, well let’s just wait and see.
Andrew: 19:25 And so when you, when you think about Uber and Lyft, I think it’s very similar. Why? At least I’ll speak for myself, I won’t speak for the rest of the people who use Uber and Lyft, but I use them simply because it’s more convenient and cheaper. And so like I, I use both. And so oftentimes if, if like let’s say I pull up, uh, cause I like to go out at night and you know, have a few drinks and take a Uber or Lyft home to be safe, right? And sometimes when you do that and you go at popular times, they jack up the prices with surge pricing. So if I see if I opened up like Lyft and I get surge pricing on the night, well I’ll just, if it’s like a three three x on where they usually pay, well then I’ll open up the Uber App and see if that’s the same case.
Andrew: 20:11 So really what I’m doing, it’s, it’s a commodity to me. It, I don’t even though, you know, Uber and Lyft have tried to do these things to give to make me a loyal customer, I’m still knocking the pay a three x premium just because I like lift better because they gave me a discount, you know, two weeks ago or a left pass. That’s another thing they’re rolling out. Whereas it’s like you pay $10 and you get $5 off the next 10 rides over the next two or four week period. I liked that and it actually saved me money cause that I happened to buy it at the time when my car was in the shop. So I used it a lot and I got a lot of value out of it and they probably lost money on me, but they probably made a lot money on, on other people. But just because of that doesn’t give me any customer loyalty to lift. If, if Lyft is gonna give me a surge price of three x and Uber is over here, not surge pricing at the same time, I’m switching over the Uber. So how do you keep customers loyal and also keep prices low and then also increase profitability for investors? I just you, you have to kind of pick one and that’s, it’s just not, you can’t win it all. So how does that become a profitable business model? Good question.
Dave: 21:39 Hey did. I think that’s, that’s really the big question. And you know, there’s an article here on market watch talking about profitability for Uber and Lyft. And they’re talking about the, what we were talking about getting rid of the drivers but also about raising their prices and they think that they’re likely to do. And so it makes sense if you eliminate your, one of your biggest costs, which is people and you raise the prices, you charge the people that use your service and you know, you’re cutting out a huge expense and you’re raising your income, you know, you’re raising your revenue. That’s a, that’s a great way to, to achieve profitability. I guess the bigger question is, is that, will people be willing to pay it? That’s always the, that’s always the trick, right?
Andrew: 22:28 Well, here’s the thing, I’m going gonna play devil’s advocate to that. Let’s say, okay, now Uber and Lyft are kind of deciding to raise prices. Maybe they do it together, right? Because, um, they, they want to become more profitable. But what happens when you do that as now, other competitors will see that and if they’ll have access to similar technology cause your patents aren’t going to last forever, well then what’s going to stop them from entering the market and doing the exact same thing you did 10 years ago and stealing all bunch of your customers by doing a price race to the bottom. I just, I think transportation is so commoditized, it’s very hard to, to build some sort of loyalty and long term customer value by not competing on price.
Dave: 23:17 I’ve, you know, I think that’s, that’s the scary thing about investing in some of these companies is that you don’t know where some of this is going to go. And that’s why I think some of the bigger value investors, I’ve stayed away from some of these companies because they just don’t know where some of this is going to go and how they’re gonna, how they’re gonna reach profitability and how they’re gonna reach their goals that they need to, to reach. Because you can’t go, you can’t go living off of, you know, selling your shares and venture capitalists forever. Eventually you have to be able to stand on your own two feet and make your own money.
Andrew: 23:57 And I mean, and, and you contrast that to the type of value investing we like to do. We like to look at businesses that are already established and already have profits coming in. So when I think of a company like Disney that I own, they’re, they’re in arguably a huge growth. They have huge growth opportunities to right, they’re competing with Netflix and we’ve talked about them in the past and I feel like I taught, I’ve talked about them a lot, but you know, so they’re like in every industry there is a chance for any company to become more profitable. All I could take his one innovation like uh, like Uber and lifts case having a no more expenses for drivers.
Andrew: 24:40 While in like Disney’s case, they could steal a lot of market share from Netflix. They could have the next hit series. That’s like the next game of Thrones. It’s all these things could happen that could, that could provide a huge growth catalyst. And you can say that about any investments. So you have the option between, you know, Uber and Lyft is exciting because everybody kind of knows them right there, their IPO and so every, it’s like fresh, they don’t have any track record than the stock market, but in my opinion, that makes it less attractive for purchase rather than more attractive because you can find growth opportunities in any industry, but why not look for growth opportunities plus businesses with core business models where it’s already profitable, you know, any, any sort of profitability, you can always increase that profitability. That’s what every business is trying to do.
Andrew: 25:38 So in a world where you’re investing and nobody’s putting a gun to your head saying you need to buy, you need to pick between one of the three IPOs that comes out this year. Another option is I’m just not going to invest in this. You can pick your circle, circle of competence, you can pick the type of business models you want to invest in. You can pick what type of valuations you want to invest in. And so in my eyes and when I look at my portfolio, the type of stocks I buy, of course I’m buying stocks with growth potential. It doesn’t make sense not to, but I’m also being picky and picking those valuation ranges. I like buying with a margin of safety, emphasis on the safety, um, buying. Why would I buy a company with a ton of debt who’s maybe fueling growth with that?
Andrew: 26:23 Well, what happens when you take the data, the away? How are you going to continue to grow and compete? Why not pick a company that’s competing, justifying and has little debt? I think it’s a no brainer. And you can say the same thing about how much earning power they have, what’s their profitability, how much profits are they bringing in now? And you can do that with every stock you look at. And I think that’s, there’s lots of factors to why investing in IPOs are, are generally a bad idea. But that’s a huge one as well is because again, with the uncertainty, there’s uncertainty in every industry. There’s generally chance for disruption in many industries. So why, when, when you can have, you know, why, why pick one that hasn’t proven to be profitable yet? When any business can become more efficient, more profitable, I would, I would 100% just pick the ones like, like we like to do profitable, low valuation, you know, paying you that dividend, giving you income and, and having that stability and that peace of mind to know I’m already in businesses that are already dominant and they do have a chance to continue to grow and be dominant and I’m just going to be happy with that.
Dave: 27:36 Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think, you know, I come back to boring as good when investing in the stock market because, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s not sexy, it’s not exciting. It gets you where you want to go and it’s, you kind of the classic, you know, do you want to invest in the Haredi? One of them invested in the turtle and the hare is flashy and it’s fast and it’s got lots of thrills and whatnot, but the turtle was the one that ends up winning in the end. So that’s to me is, and it also can help you sleep at night. You don’t have to go on your phone every single day to look at the price of a particular company if you’re investing that way. Whereas if you’re buying out there, buying, you know the, the latest, greatest fancy shiny object like Uber is going to be today, then a week from now you could have lost a third of what you invested quite easily.
Dave: 28:33 And that’s the scary part for me about investing in IPOs in it. Just, you know, we’ve talked about this before and I think the thing that I would say about this is really the people that get rich and IPOs immediately are the people that own the company and the people that invested in the company from the get go. Everybody else, not so much. And it doesn’t mean that you couldn’t down the road because there was, you know, not too long ago, Facebook’s IPO came out with a gang busters. It fell off, the fell off the the earth for awhile and now it’s built back up to where it’s quite high. Is it overvalued right now? Probably, but it was a success. You know, it’s a successful company. You can argue you all the morality of everything that Zuckerberg and everybody’s been doing their station. But the e, the simple fact is when you invest in an IPO, the only two people that, the only two groups of people that make money for sure are the owners and the people that invested in a company to start with.
Andrew: 29:39 So, uh, I, that would be something that would be very hesitant to invest in a company. And I’m not saying you can’t take like 50 blocks and throw it at, at Uber on, you know, your investment platform just for fun and see what happens with it. But, you know, do you take your life savings and pour it into something like this? I’d be real hesitant to do that. Uh, just because of all the things that Android I’ve talked about through the life of our 103 episodes of the podcast or even just today. Uh, there’s just so many reasons why doing something like that would just be very detrimental to your longterm wealth. And what we’re trying to do here. I’m glad you brought up Facebook because that’s more of the exception than the rule. Uh, you could bring up Facebook and say, well, that was almost a 10 bagger and they used to be not profitable and now they were able to do that.
Andrew: 30:35 It’s true. They found a way to make themselves profitable without pissing off their consumer base. Too Bad. I mean, for every Facebook you can talk about, it’s whether it’s weather star there that for the one today it’s at 38. So we’re talking about over four years of, you talk about Twitter, uh, an investment for four years where you break even, you don’t make any money on it compared to that where the s and p has been that you’re not receiving a dividend with that. And, and just a lot of the wasted time, I pulled up an article, um, basically as a USA today article, the biggest companies I want to IPO in 2018 and so obviously we’re recording this in the middle of 2019. So they wrote this, okay. So they wrote it at the end of 2018 looking at the, the biggest as of 2018 and then kind of checking in at the end of the year and seeing how these ips went.
Andrew: 31:33 So the number one was Spotify. They dropped from one 65 a share, the one 36. Um, there were a couple others, uh, stay kind of even some other ones that popped out to me. Here’s one winter, it was Allanco, e, l a,N and went from 24 to 33 but ADT from 14 to seven of 50% drop in less than a year. Uh, another one that popped out to me was keep scrolling here. Um, gates industrial gts from 19 to 14. So you really have these stocks that are kind of all over the map when there’s an IPO. And, and really these valuations are kind of settling. And so when, if you think about investing in an IPO, there’s gonna be a lot of volatility. There’s going to be a lot of risk and just a lot of uncertainty. And like Dave said, I like that point where for speculation purposes, I think it’s great, but we’re talking about a lot of people on this show who listened to the show. They’re investing their life savings or their hard earned money. And while it can be fun to go to the Casino and gamble, uh, when you talk about saving for retirement, trying to get financial freedom, trying to build income streams sustainably and reliably, in my opinion, that’s a no brainer to invest in the margin of safety, emphasis on the safety rather than invest in no profitability and hope for profitability.
Dave: 33:08 Well said. I think that Kinda sums up really what we’ve been trying to do since we started this podcast. And I think what I like about when we have the news, like what’s going to happen today, it just helps illustrate that data time and time again. And I agree with, you know, about what we’re trying to do here and how we’re trying to help people. And you have to always remember that you have to stick to what’s your plan is and what your principles are when you’re investing.
Dave: 33:40 Because you know, we all work hard for our money and to just throw it away at a shiny object, uh, it can hurt and it can discourage you from ever wanting to get involved with the stock market or trying to save any money for your wealth and for your retirement as you get older. And that’s what this is all about. And that’s what we’re trying to help people to do. And that’s why I think it’s apropos that we talk about this from time to time, just to kind of remind people, this is why we do what we do and this is, these are the things that we try to look at and see how we’re doing what we’re doing. And Are we going to miss companies? Absolutely. There is nobody that’s perfect. As great as an investor, as buffet is, he has ms companies and it’s going to happen, but you can’t be, you can’t get caught up in the rat race of trying to get the better thing, you know, as great as Michael Jordan is, it was Lebron James, you can argue was, has been better. And somewhere down the road, somebody’s going to come along and be better than him. Andrews, you know, hero is Kobe Bryant.
Dave: 34:43 There’s going to be people. Uh, it’s just the nature of, of human beings and you can’t get caught up and trying to one up everybody and you have to stick to your principles and you have to do what you think is right and helps you sleep at night because that’s really what it comes down to.
Dave: 35:00 All right folks, we’ll, that is going to wrap up our conversation for this evening. I hope you enjoyed all the things that we had to say and I think one thing I’d like you to remember as you kind of go into the IPO and all the other stuff is just stick to your principles wherever. What we’re trying to teach you guys, emphasis on the margin of safety, emphasis on the safety, so that any further ado, I’m going to go ahead and sign this off. You guys have a great week and remember our tagline, margin of safety, of some of safety. We’ll talk to you guys next week.
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