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IFB127: High ETF Fees, Diversifying in the 11 Sectors, Lazy or Uninterested?

Announcer:                        00:00                     You’re tuned in to the Investing for Beginners podcast. Finally, step by step premium investment guidance for beginners led by Andrew Sather and Dave Ahern. To decode industry jargon, silence crippling confusion, and help you overcome emotions by looking at the number, your path to financial freedom starts now.

Andrew:                              00:35                     All right folks, we’ll welcome to the Investing for Beginners podcast. This is episode 127 tonight, Andrew and I are going to take some listener question and answer them for you. If you are enjoying this show please subscribe for future shows. We’ve got some great questions recently, and so we thought we would read through those and do our a little back and forth and give and take. So Andrew, why don’t you go ahead and read us the first question.

Andrew:                              00:57                     Sounds good. So this one’s from Stefan L. He says, I’ve been following your podcast and your newsletter for about two or three months now considering signing up for your Eli there, but first and they work out the best way to invest in the US market from abroad. He says, I live and work in Bulgaria. He says I’m interested in investing in the S and P 500 during the dollar-cost averaging with monthly installments of about $300; however, the options to buy an ETF from a local broker are terrible. They want to charge me 4% commission plus $2.20 per month plus bank transaction and currency exchange fees, which roughly amounts to six and a half to 7% given that the average growth ofS and P 500 is around 8% of the year, I can hardly make any money in the long run.

Andrew:                              01:44                     Have another option to buy stocks slush funds through interactive brokers where I’ll costs amounts of two and a half to 3% however, based on the audiobooks that I’ve been listening to money mastering the game by Anthony Robbins, I would say that this is still quite an expensive option. The only benefit is that by law, ETFs and mutual funds are not taxed if bought from or through an EU brokerage firm. So I save 10% of income tax. He says I was wondering if you could let me know what are the standard fees you pay in us per transaction slash monthly installment, and can you elaborate on the platforms you use for purchasing stocks and the taxes you pay? So timely, right. Dave, what are your thoughts?

Dave:                                    02:28                     Yeah, very timely for sure. So I guess my thoughts are, so I guess what’s the answer to the last question first? Cause that’s going to be the easiest part of this. The standard fees that we pay right now in the US or are zero dollars. So for any transactions buying an ETF, a mutual fund, or individual stocks, you are not going to pay a single penny for making a transaction in the US right now. So that’s going to help costs

Andrew:                              03:00                     Longterm costs on that. As far as the taxes go, that’s going to depend a lot on a, what kind of accounts you have it in, whether you have it in an IRA versus a, a just a straight brokerage account. So whether you have a traditional or a Roth will have a bearing on any taxes you may or may not pay as well as just a standalone brokerage account. The standard alone brokerage account is going to cost you more in the long run in taxes because you’re not going to get those benefits that you would get with the retirement accounts. The other aspect of that is any capital gains you would pay depending on the timeframe of when you would sell the stock. You know, if you sell it shorter term, you’re going to have more impact than if you pay it if you hold onto the stock longer.

Andrew:                              03:50                     So I guess that’s a general overview of that. No. I am delving back into the ETF part of it. Here are some thoughts that I had. Andrew and I talked about this a couple of episodes ago, and I’ll go back over this. I had a thought about ETFs and kind of how they’re structured. One of the, I guess, really huge calling cards about EPS prior was the effect of that you had when you were buying stocks because of the commissions that we all had to pay. Depending on what your brokers were, there was kind of a wide range from zero with Robin hood up to 10 95 a trade depending on what brokerage you’re with. But now that the playing field has been leveled where they’re all zero, really the only fees that you would possibly pay with an ETF or a mutual fund would be any of the maintenance fees that they’re going to charge you to manage those funds for you, whether it’s an ETF or a mutual fund.

Andrew:                              04:51                     Now the fun part about this, and this is, was my idea was, what’s the stop you from creating your ETF? Now? So one of the ways that you can do this is you can go and find a breakdown of all the stocks that any ETF is holding. A, there’s a website called etf.com; if you go there and type in, you can use that as a screener. So you can look for different kinds of ETFs, whether it’s something like a broad index, like the S and P 500 index, you can easily do that. Or you can use something more esoteric like, I don’t know, all the oil stocks from the Middle East, whatever floats your boat, you can find any EDF for it nowadays because they’ve become very, very popular. But one of the things that you can do, and this was my ideas, why pay that extra fee to manage the ETF for you when you’re willing to do it yourself.

Andrew:                              05:52                     So some of the Vanguard funds are extremely low, like 0.03%. So I mean, they’re minuscule, and you know, do you want to, I mean, is it worth it to you in the long run to do that? You know, that’s really up to you. But for me as a or Sephora more self kind of guy, I would prefer not to pay anybody anything. So what I could do is I could go to this etf.com type in spy, which is one of the S and P 500 ETFs that kind of tracks the broad index of those. You click on that link, and it’ll show you the top 10 holdings of that spy. So when you look at that, you’re going to see a breakdown of all the companies that it’s holding in that ETF as well as the overall percentage of that ETF. So, for example, SPY is going to hold things like the big boys, Apple, Amazon, Netflix Facebook, in essence, all the Fang stocks, alphabet, slash, Google, all those companies are going to be part of that.

Andrew:                              06:59                     You know, as well as JP Morgan, Wells Fargo Cisco, you know, just about anybody you can think of and they, ‘re going to put, the cool thing is, is they’re going to have their percentages of how much of the hundred percent they’re holding of these particular companies. And you could kinda work that out to create your own top 10 index if you want it to, or even top five indexes and or you could just, if you don’t want to own the Fang stocks, then you just go right down the list and choose the next five from that and pick those and create your ETF from that. And you can use, you know, the $300 that he’s looking at investing is he could break that up into buying different, you know, asset allocations of those particular companies and create his own TM own ETF and that would save him, you know, a boatload of money by doing it that way.

Andrew:                              07:53                     And it would also help him in the long run because he’s not going to be paying any management fees. Now, of course, you’re going to have to do some rebalancing from time to time that the, as the stocks and the dividends are reinvested in, in the companies, they’re going to outgrow some of those percentages. And you may want to have to adjust those depending on your comfort level with having a larger portion of one particular company being bigger than the other. But I, there’s no reason why you can’t look at any ETF and create your own going forward. And I think that is something that I know that I’m going to be exploring as well. Especially as I word more and more about the stock market and particularly bonds and some of those things that are, are, are interesting to me. I think this is going to be a great way to create our ETFs because these are all managed by the big boys. Smart, smart people. And you know why to work harder when you can work smarter I guess. Ooh, great. Yeah.

Andrew:                              08:56                     Thanks. Where are we talking? Where was I talking to you when? We were saying one of the brokerages now does fractional ownership. Yes. Yeah, we talked about that last beak. You know, we, yeah, we did recently. I don’t think we talked about that on there, though. Oh, I don’t think we did. So that, I mean, you know, the one argument you can make against not building your ETF is let’s say I wanted to own Amazon. There you go. Why would you want to do that? Right? But if say I wanted to own that at $1,000 a share, well I would have to save $1,000 and then to get an equal weight balance, you kind of needed a thousand and every stock, and so an ETF can do that for you, right? Whereas now, with fractional share ownership, you can create that and do even like $10.

Andrew:                              09:47                     And it’s like, well, I have 0.1 shares of Amazon, but now some of the brokers, do you remember which broker? Allows that now? I honestly don’t. I yo, I want to say it was Charles Schwab, but I don’t know that. I don’t know that for sure. So, you know, just another kind of argument and it seems like it’s just moving in that way. Yeah, I would agree with that. So, yeah, as far as the account options go, if you’re somebody who is international looking to invest in the US, I don’t know. You know, Dave and I are not tax experts, and we’re not international experts by any stretch. However I think it’s important to be aware that, you know, while there might be some trade-offs between as an example, I’m an American, so if I try to buy a Chinese stock, let’s say I’m going to get probably double taxed.

Andrew:                              10:46                     So, you know, there might be some downside to somebody who’s in another country trying to buy stocks in the US and then maybe possibly facing double taxation depending on what country they live in. But I think it’s good to be aware of what the conditions are kind of here in the States and hopefully with other brokerages and other countries. That trend is going that way. I mean, this idea of paying almost six and a half to 7% for this ETF stuff, that’s just ludicrous. And at the feeds, the whole purpose of why they were made. Right? Yeah, it does. Completely. It’s just foolish. I mean, you know the option where he’s talking about interactive brokers. I think that’s a no brainer personally. Yeah, that’s I guess the better of two evils. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I would think that with the United States going that route, I would, I would imagine that the rest of the marketplaces around the world would start to go that way as well. Sooner than later. Right.

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Andrew:                              12:07                     Last thing that came to my mind is that becomes an in the realm of possibility over the last few weeks, you haven’t really been able to do before as an average investor with all the zero-fee commissions is now, you know, in the past it was like had to save up $150 so that the transaction fee wouldn’t take up too much of your capital. Now, when you know with no transaction fees, you can get started and buy a penny stock for a couple of dollars. You could buy like office Depot for two bucks, you could buy you know, like blanking on, I didn’t want to give away an eletter pick. But you know, lots of other stocks trading at $15, $20, whatever and even just buying one share and you can do that right away. So now what kind of comes into play that never was in the past is somebody who’s just starting could kind of get like an instead diversification where instead of in the past I’ve always recommended buy one stock,  and you know, try to save at least 150 a month by one stock and then continue buying a new stock until you have a diversified portfolio of 20 stocks.

Andrew:                              13:18                     Well now somebody could theoretically buy like a $25. You could take that same $150; you could buy six different, a hundred, a $25 stocks, and all of a sudden, you have a lot more diversification than you did in the past. I think there’s still a lot of; there’s a lot to be said about diversifying over time. So, you know, just because you split money all at once in one month and you have like a full portfolio, don’t think that makes you diversify in any way. I think you always want to be dollar-cost averaging because, in a way you’re diversifying the time aspect if that makes sense. And you are not necessarily buying too high. But I think this is an option now that comes into play with somebody, whether they’re wanting to kind of craft their ETF or even just more excited about getting into individual stocks.

Andrew:                              14:12                     This is one way to kind of ease that, that trepidation or the worry that you might’ve had in the past with just buying one stock. Now you can kind of spread that out, and it’s something that wasn’t a good option before. Yeah, that’s great. I agree with that. That’s a good point. And I hadn’t thought of that before, so that’s nice. Can I patent that phrase instead of diversification? Yes. I think you should. It is moving on, moving on. All right, so then the next question we have is from Gabe. And is for Andrew.

Dave:                                    14:52                     Andrew, I’ve been listening to your and Dave’s podcast, big fan, and you have made me want to begin investing. I had made and funded an ally account but not yet bought anything before I started, I have a few questions about your e-letter and advisor services. I’m not a subscriber yet, as I am trying to do my research and decide what services and resources I want to buy into. So first question, I feel like I understand the dollar cost averaging and drip, but I’m unsure about when or if I would be going to buy more shares of the stock that was bought. For example, in month one I buy stock X than a month two a new stock is advised with the only time you buy more of X is when the drip occurs.

Andrew:                              15:36                     So a lot. We get a lot of questions about dollar-cost averaging. And I think that’s a good thing because I guess the more we talk about it, the more people can understand, and I think it’s tricky and something that it’s not covered much because it’s more exciting to talk about stocks and not as exciting to talk about portfolio management. But I would argue that portfolio management is probably more important, and dollar-cost averaging falls into that. So if you are currently a subscriber to the E leather, you will know the answer to this already. But every month, I am evaluating every stock I own in the sense where, you know, it’s not like I’m digging into the annual reports every time. That would be exhausting. But I’m checking up on where the prices have been. I have my little spreadsheet network that kind of updates my VTI values.

Andrew:                              16:30                     And so I can see from a price standpoint how these stocks are moving from day to day, month to month. And if they’re becoming, you know, if they’re staying in the valuation ranges where they want a buy or not. So to answer the question, I will buy more if it’s still a good deal. And if I still feel good about the bullish thesis that I had on it I will buy more. So subscribers will know this, too. Sometimes I’ll take two months in a row where I’m recommending the same stock. Sometimes I will recommend the stock that I recommended a year before and recommend that again. So every issue comes with like a list of the stocks I believe are still buys. So you know, if, if the reason I do that is that sometimes there are people who are just building their portfolio and so they might not want to double up on a position.

Andrew:                              17:26                     Right. And so they want, they might want two, three, four new positions and they don’t want to double up like I am. So if you look at the portfolio, you’ll see I have some physicians that like one of the recent ones from last month. That’s a 12 X position. It’s a; it’s a pretty high concentration. It sounds like a lot more than it is. It’s just because the portfolio is so big now. But yeah, I have other positions that are like nine X nine and a half X. So you start to get into like position sizing, and the bigger your portfolio gets, the smaller your deposits get as a percentage of your portfolio. So there’s a lot of these little details as your doing it yourself and then managing a portfolio that you need to think about. And so that’s, that’s a good question.

Andrew:                              18:17                     And it’s not, I’m just recommending a stock once and leaving it alone. I’m going to look at how these prices are moving and kind of go from there. Last little thing I’ll add to that is I have these values, these VTI values are, they’re updating, but just because of ETI is still a strong buy doesn’t necessarily mean I still consider it a strong buy. So there is a little bit of qualitative factor that goes into it. So I might have a stock that’s like a hold, for example. So I don’t feel so bad about it to want to sell it and then don’t feel so good about it that I want to buy more. Even though the VTI is showing me a strong buy when I have, let’s say stock B over here, which looks so much better and also has a great VTI.

Andrew:                              19:09                     And so those are the decisions that I’m making from a month to month basis. And that would probably be a good idea for any investor out there. Excellent. Great stuff. All right, so let’s move on to the next question also about portfolio diversification. I know you said around 15 to 20 stocks is a good goal in these 20 stocks. Should you be looking to hold stocks in each over 11 sectors with one, two stocks in each, or maybe only five sectors with five different companies? So actually I’ve never heard your thoughts on this, Dave. So let me throw it back to you, and I’m curious how you deal with like sectors and, and kind of how you search their portfolio that way.

Dave:                                    19:57                     So I guess I am probably a little bit different. I guess I follow more along the lines of our buddies. Uncle Warren and uncle Charlie in that I try to stick as opposed to buying a stock in a sector that I know nothing about, that I have zero competence in and I can read the 10 K and go, huh I don’t buy it just because I have to ha I have to have it in a sector.

Dave:                                    20:29                     I generally try to stick with more of the sectors that I’m more comfortable with and buy companies and knows and not worry so much about the sectors, but worry more about the companies that I’m buying and trying to stay with. And I guess my circle confidence; I guess there is the best way of putting it.

Andrew:                              20:51                     Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. Like there’s just some sectors out there that are just so terrible that almost like irritates me that anybody would think that they have to be diversified into them or anybody who says you would have to be like, you know, biotech is basically put your money on red, and you know, w it’s waiting and see what happens. It’s, it’s, I can’t even imagine trying to pick a stock inside the biotech, not to mention that sector as a whole is just completely created, or it was like the hot thing of a couple years ago, and now it’s just not. So, you know, with a investor in the 90s, I love the horse and buggy example using that just countlessly but you know, with an investor in the 1920s or whenever it was, should they have put money in the horse and buggy industry so they could have stayed diversified throughout the sector, you know, throughout all sectors to kind of cover everything.

Andrew:                              21:49                     I, I think there’s just so many, so many judgments you can make about, you know, let’s, let’s be smarter and not, not over diversify. I think a lot of, I guess, depending on your age and kind of your goals and stuff, I think a lot of people can over diversify themselves to death. And I don’t think you necessarily have to do that to make great returns. Just understand if you diversify in something that’s, I have to be careful with my words. If you diversify into something that will probably get lower returns, then you’re probably needlessly dragging your total return down. Does that make sense? Yes it does. Yeah. So even, you know, to get exposure, you’re never going to get exposure to everything. And every sector is different. Every industry is different. Businesses always changing. The industries within this are always changing.

Andrew:                              22:52                     And yesterday’s industry that was a boom could be tomorrow’s bust. And so just like you don’t want to buy into an industry just because the prices are low, you know, you also want to think about if I have two stocks, one is trading really cheaply, but I see that the revenues have been declining, the earnings have been declining, and everything around its industry is declining and everything tells me that this is a dying industry. Am I going to buy low just because it’s at a low price? I hope not. And so in the same token, I don’t want to jump into an industry to fulfill this need to feel diversified. The way I’ll, I’ll, I’ll kind of throw some numbers. So something I also included in the Eli Thurs is just like a general position size chart, spreadsheet, table, whatever you want to call it.

Andrew:                              23:51                     So basically every position because it’s gotten to the point now where the portfolio’s pretty big, the numbers get pretty big, and you know, they fluctuate up and down. So it can be hard to kind of get perspective on how much is the stocktaking up in my portfolio. Right. So I kind of break down the percentages, and I have a few different sectors that I have that I’m currently allocated in. So right now I’m 55% into consumer goods, and I think that definition is loose as a loose definition. And it depends on; you could kind of argue multiple ways of different stocks. A has 18% in services, 10% of financial, a little less than 3% in tech. It was higher, but I just exited the position for a large profit. And then there’s some basic materials and industrial goods. So you know that I’m, I’m, so I’m monitoring that, and I’m aware of where that is, but I’m not using that to drive my decisions.

Andrew:                              24:56                     Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Okay. So I think it’s, it’s good to be aware of like, I wouldn’t want to be 100% into consumer goods because I think if you have a recession that would probably blow up. But then the same token, if that’s where the deals are, that’s where the deals are. And like, I guess a general rule, I would like to get more into tech, but the reality is there are only so many tech companies that become a good value. So you know, all of those things I guess to keep in mind, but as a general rule, I probably wouldn’t give the idea of sector diversification too high of a priority when it when you compare it to other things. And I would agree with that. And I, I w I guess two things that I want to take on to that.

Dave:                                    25:42                     Number one is when, as you naturally are buying companies, especially when you’re, if you’re working with Andrew and his, his fantastic ideas and thoughts and his great picks he comes up with every month, you’re naturally going to start to create a diversification just by that alone. And then you, you know, can start looking at other companies that you may be interested in. From there, the other thing that I wanted to talk about with just the way, I guess, touching again on the circle of competence. I want to give you a story of Monish Pabrai who’s one of my favorite value investors. Incredibly intelligent man and could do anything, and he wants. He wants to be an investor. And one of the things that he does, so for example, a, a few quite a few years ago, he bought a company called Fiat Chrysler. And before he bought them, he knew nothing about the car industry, nothing. And he came across

Dave:                                    26:44                     The stock through one of the processes that he does to screen for companies and whatnot. And if it looked interesting, but he didn’t know anything about the company. So he spent, I think it was six months studying the car industry, reading publications about how cars are made, learning how production lines work, learning about labor unions, all the different things that go into a car industry. So from building a car to managing, selling, dealing with the governments where the cars are made. He says everything in anything exhaustive, interviewing people, meeting the CEOs, which is not something you and I can do. But he did. He did all those things before he bought Fiat Chrysler, and it turned out to be a fantastic, you know, stock for him. He bought it at like $3 a share. Now it’s in the 20s. These made gazillions by doing that.

Dave:                                    27:34                     But my point being is, is that he took the time to learn as much as he possibly could about that industry before he bought the company because it didn’t fall in his circle of competence. Now we don’t all have six months to study the airline industry in-depth for the, you know, the next six months because we all have jobs and families and things we have to do that we can’t devote all this. So if you don’t have competence or confidence that you know a lot about a particular company, then like Andrew was saying, you’re putting your, putting money in jeopardy by stretching out and trying to reach for something just because it fits into a slot. And so I encourage you to think about things that you are going to feel comfortable reading about, talking about, learning about, learning more about, you know, whatever it is you do for a living.

Dave:                                    28:34                     All those things can lead you to feel more comfortable about investing. Because again, you’re buying a company, you’re not buying a stock, you’re buying a company, and the companies build stuff, make stuff, make money. And that’s how it all works. And you always have to keep that in mind when you’re trying to create a portfolio from scratch. You know, Andrew does a fantastic job of guiding people through his pics and the reason why he’s making them. And he puts a lot of thought process into how his portfolio is constructed. And he just told you what kind of his breakdown of how that works. And he’s already naturally created a diversification just based on what he’s comfortable buying. And then you may have other things that you may feel comfortable with that Andrew doesn’t. And that doesn’t mean it’s good or bad. It just means that you are more comfortable with that. And you can put, you know, some money into those things and start to expand a little bit. You know, your diversification, but just throwing something in there to throw something in there is, it’s not going to help you in the long run.

Andrew:                              29:42                     I love that, though. Those are some great points. Like when I look at my portfolio, I see like they’re pretty simple businesses. I see a chicken company; I see a T-shirt, company, jewelry, an airline a company that deals with things that kids love. So, it makes it a lot easier when you bring that mindset into it. Something that I thought of with what you were saying is I think when you challenge people that Hey, they need to find the circle of competence, and they need to understand what they’re risking their money for. I think you get a fork in the road because you have two types of people. I think you have the people who maybe are over, there’s probably more, but let’s make it easy. You have the people who are completely overwhelmed, and they say, I don’t care about business and how businesses work. I want to make decent returns. So maybe you can suggest that person. And then on the second and another road, you have, the other person who is super excited wants to learn about business and how it works and how businesses can grow and make profits and, and how I can find out about that. And then they’re kind of hungry for the next step. So how would you speak to each of those

Andrew:                              31:00                     Two people? Ooh, that’s a good question. I guess the, the boy the second person I think would be easier for me to deal with because that’s the person that’s willing to do the deep dive and look more into what they’re going to be comfortable buying because they’re going to invest the time to learn more about that particular company because they feel so comfortable learning more about how they do what they do. And I think that leads to more, I guess, confidence in their selections where I think when you’re looking at the first fork in the road, those are people that I think want to scratch the surface but are not as interested in wording the deep dark details as the second person is. And so I guess trying to guide them through picking things that are going to help them in the long run but are going to be ABC for pics. Is that a better way of putting it?

Andrew:                              32:19                     It’s tough because I guess there’s such a broad spectrum of people and their interest levels and their, you know, effort levels and everything. I trapped you with a hard one there. Yeah, you did. So, I think about it often because I think it’s a podcast for beginners and we have such a wide range of, it’s so fun to see the intelligence and get the feedback from you guys and hear from people who, you know, they love it, they get inspired there, they’re all about it. But you know, sometimes some people kind of fall off because some of this stuff can get involved, right? Like you do need to put like an effort to it. And so not that I have like the answer for everybody, but this just kind of popped up in my head while you’re talking is like, do just like if you absolutely hate the idea of like, I don’t know, looking at profit numbers and all those just, you know, basic profit revenue assets if that really doesn’t speak to you at all.

Andrew:                              33:31                     I think, I think what you need to focus on more is the big picture ideas, which is something I think we try to talk about constantly as much as we can. And so what that means is make sure whatever you do, you’re, you’re doing it for the long term and make sure if you learn anything that you learned the ability to let your investments stay. Because I think the biggest fear that at least I have is for somebody to lose interest in the stock market or to invest. And that doesn’t give me fear like, Oh man, they’re not going to pick stocks as I do. They’re not going to be in there. It’s like I am. That’s not it at all. It’s that if you don’t learn enough that you understand how the market works, you’re going to be like the people you see on TV who lose everything because they sell and they panic like the rest of everybody else.

Andrew:                              34:24                     When these crashes and these bear markets and these recessions happen pretty frequently, and they’re just kind of like nature of the beast. And it’s, it’s, it’s just part of an economy in this part of a market. And that’s just the way things work. And so if you’re not setting the right expectations, if you’re trying to, you know, kinda jump in and jump out, this isn’t the thing that you just pick up overnight and then it’s not riding the bike I guess in the sense that it stays with you for the rest of your life. You, you have to put, I guess that was the wrong metaphor. It is kind of like riding the bike because you do have to put a lot of effort into learning how to ride a bike, and you can use that for the rest of your life.

Andrew:                              35:09                     But you know, nobody learns to ride a bike by jumping on the first time and then, Oh, that’s it. I got it. You know, you have to put the work in. And so when you at least understand that there are these huge things like diversification, dollar cost averaging and staying invested for the long term, get those down and understand why, like learn that part. And then the other part that you don’t really like about companies or stocks won’t matter as much as long as you are doing the big-picture things and investing in the right way. And I think if you’re a person on that fork of the road then you kind of, you’re OK with like kind of what the market could generally give you and you have no interest in and going for more than I think that’s something you, you should do.

Andrew:                              36:01                     But I don’t think scratching the surface would be beneficial because then you’ll panic like everybody else when the next calamity hits, which it will.

Dave:                                    36:10                     All right folks will, that is going to wrap up our discussion for this evening. I hope you enjoyed our given, taken our answers to the questions. I think one of the things Gabe and Stefan for their great questions, thank you guys for taking the time to write to those, write those to us. We appreciate it, and it was a lot of fun answering those questions. You guys had some great ones, and as always, so without any further ado, I’m going to go ahead and sign this off. If you enjoyed today’s show, please subscribe for future shows. Guys, go out there and invest with a margin of safety. Emphasis on safety. Have a great week, and we’ll talk to you all next week.

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